Tuesday, November 27, 2007

Another way to convert a Ford van to 4x4

Finally finished getting my van converted to 4x4. Now it's time to share the experience and maybe help those who may do the same.
I've had motorhomes for many years now, starting with Volkswagon Vanagons. I eventually built my own by putting a custom top onto a chevy blazer. This got me closer to my ultimate goal of a small capable camper, but the whole time I've been eyeing the sportsmobile. Until recently I couldn't come close to being able to afford one. In fact I still can't afford one, at least not a new one ordered from the factory. Hence this post, I found a way to have my cake and still be able to afford a glass of milk to go with it. Buying a relatively old (2001) 2wd sportsmobile and doing my own conversion allowed me to get what I ultimatley wanted without breaking the bank.
There are 5 ways that I know of to convert a Ford van to 4x4. You can order a new one from Ford and have Quigley do the "factory" conversion. Order a new sportsmobile and have sportsmobile west do the conversion. Go to Salem Kroger in California, or go to Quadvan in Oregon. Or........ find the parts, someone who can weld way better than me, and make it happen. I have spoken extensively with both Eddie at Quadvan and Craig at Salem Kroger. I had originally planned on having one of them do the conversion for me. Unfortunately, they are both expensive, and many hundreds of miles from my home. As I researched more and more I soon learned that although not easy or straightforward, one could do the conversion themselves at about half the cost.




Most of the parts come from a 2005 Super Duty F250. I located a complete vehicle with rear end damage only. The truck had 26000 miles on it so components are in good condition. I bought the 4wd drivetrain complete (which was a mistake). This includes a dana 60 axle complete, all steering parts except for pittman arm, springs, shocks, driveline, pinard, track arms, etc. A couple of points to consider here. Make sure the vehicle has low miles, make sure it's not from the east (rust), and you will probably get a much better deal than I did if you buy components individually.

What I learned: The dissasembly guys don't really care if all of the nuts and bolts go with the parts. My conversion guy lost two days finding and ordering specialized oem ford bolts and misc parts. The shift linkage was not included and it took 5 hours to mock up a replacement. The transfer case had the wrong spline count for my transmission. Luckily the salvage yard let me trade it back in for the correct one. I did not use the shocks, springs, driveshaft, or sway bar. May have saved some bucks leaving those behind.

Other parts needed for the conversion:

The fuel tank will need to be shortened to make room for the transfer case. I had a 35 gallon tank which would have been cut down to 29. Assuming it would cost 500 dollars to chop the tank, I elected to put that money towards a new transflow 46 gallon tank which is made to fit the 4x4. If you order one of these, make sure you get the made for 4x4 model or their Quigley model. The tank cost just under 900 dollars.

Wheels are Mickey thompson Classic II 17x9 inch with a 5 inch backspacing. You have to use a 17 or larger wheel to fit over the new larger front rotors. Tires are BFG All Terrains. 285/70-17 I believe. They come out to 32.8 inches tall. Unfortunately they are only rated "D" loading instead of E. I thought I was getting E's when I ordered. The D rating is 3190 per tire (or very close to that number) so should be adequate, but my next set of tires will definitely be load range E. I bought tires and wheels from http://www.tirepackage.com/ and was very happy with their price and delivery time. The load range mistake was all me. Van wheels bolt pattern was 8 on 6.5, the new axle is an 8 on 170. That means either two seperate sets of wheels, or wheel adapters. I contacted Fred Goeske at http://www.wheeladapter.com/ and had steel adapters made. The adapters or spacers go on the rear axle and change the bolt pattern to match the front while also pushing the rear wheels out two inches to match the track of the front. Make sure you have Fred make a lip on the stud side of the adapter to match the inside of your wheel. This gives an extra safety margin, and will keep the wheel from moving on the adapter.

Driveshafts were custom made by my conversion guy. Transmission adapter must be installed to mate up with the transfer case. The transmission is a tricky part of the conversion. My transmission is a 4R100. With a 2wd there is a long output shaft on the 4R100. You can either buy a bracket (from quigley?) and keep the long transmission shaft which makes the transfer case sit farther back. Not sure how this will affect the fuel tank situation. What I did was change the output shaft on the transmission to the (4x4) shaft. You can then use the standard Ford adapter to mate the transmission to the transfer case. When the shaft is changed the whole transmission must be torn apart. They found a bad bearing in mine when it came apart which added another 1000 dollars to the bill. Better to find it now and not half way down the Baja penninsula I guess.

One of the more difficult parts of this conversion was figuring out how to make the speedometer work correctly. I was thinking old school, who cares if it doesn't work for a while, we will eventually figure it out. Wrong, the speedo gives signal to the computer which then tells the transmission when to shift. Post conversion test drive found a van going 20mph with a speedo reading 50mph and shifting into overdrive. The problem comes from the speedo pickup which was located on the tail cone portion of the transmission. Since my tailcone is now gone and replaced by the 4x4 adapter I have a problem. The pickup wire does plug directly into the new adapter, but unfortunately the signal is way off due to the different sized tone ring inside. The solution is a little magic box called a transmission ratio adapter. I used the Electronic Ratio Adapter from Abbott Enterprises. The adapter takes an incoming signal and converts it to the correct ratio to make your speedometer accurate. It can be adjusted for any tire size in the future. The down side is that if this part fails, you are stuck in second gear until it is repaired or replaced. The pickup is also on the transmission side rather than the output of the transfer case so the speedometer will be all messed up whenever you are in low range. Should work fine unless you try to go 40 in low range.

ABS:

Darnit, it was there when I started, I really want it to work when I'm finished. So far I'm having issues with the ABS system. It works great until you drive about 5 miles then the light comes on. We are currently testing the old sensors vs the new ones to see if we can figure it out. I'll get it going and post the solution soon.

19 comments:

Randy said...

Nice Van! Thanks for sharing.

Anonymous said...

IM LOOKIG FOR THE SAME AWNSER FOR THE ABS I HAVE DONE THREE VAN ALREADY IN THE PAST TWO MONTHS THE GAS TANK YOU CAN CUT IT WITH A ANGLE GRINDER AND WELDED WITH A TORCH MIX GAS YOU WILL SPEND 16 DLLS IN WELD STICKS..AND THE TRASMISSION SPEED YOU NEED TO INSTALLED A OLDER TRANSFER CASE LIKE FROM A BRONCO OR F150,F250,F249 BORWARNER TRANSFER YERA THAT FIT 1985-1995 I RAN IN TO THE SAME PROBLEMS WHEN FIRST STARTED.

Unknown said...

Read up a little further. The ABS problem was solved with an older model sensor. My 2001 van was not compatible with the 2005 sensors in the new axle. I purchased earlier version sensors and now everything works great.

tom.

Troy said...

So what did the total cost wind up being? Are you happy with the ride and performance of the finished product? Do you feel that you're missing out on anything compared to a conversion done by one of the popular companies?

Unknown said...

It's difficult to nail down the exact cost because several non 4x4 items were in the mix. I'm guessing between 6 and 7 thousand is about right. The ride is great now that I've added deaver leaf springs in the rear. Those and coils up front make me think my ride is most likely better than the other conversions. I'm missing that atlas transfer case and the tie rod above the front axle. Those are the two real advantages the sportsmobile conversion have over mine. I could have done the atlas however.

Anonymous said...

would you rather have sent it to Quigley to have it done?

Unknown said...

No, I'm glad I did it. The cost was less and I knew the systems intimately. I'd do it again.

Unknown said...

Tom,
My name is Mike; Thanks so much for your ramblings. I am beginning to think about my own report on my conversion but in my case its more along the lines of 'mutterings'. I am converting a 97 Sportsmobile to 4wd using the same F250/350 process you used. And I am having issues with my front abs sensors. It appears that the 2005-07 F250 motorcraft part is not compatible with the the e350 computer. It keeps reading as not connected.
I know its been a few years but do you remember the front abs sensor part number (or model) you finally used to get yours to work? If so that would be great. If not, no worries.
Thanks again
Mike

Unknown said...

Sorry Mike. One reason I do the blogs is so I can go back and "remember" things. Memory doesn't work like it used to. Maybe you could try some other junk yard sensors? When you figure it out please comment here to help the next guy. Also, how about linking blogs when you get yours up. It's all about sharing info.

Brad said...

Hi Tom, I am doing the same conversion on my 2001 e350 v10 with 2005 f350 axles and currently running into the shifting problem due to the speed sensor. I am running a 4wd 4r100 out of a 1999 f350 and was wondering if the module from abbott enterprise would work with this tcase or do I have to buy a tcase from an older ford like what was said above, Thanks Brad.

Unknown said...

Brad I would try the module. All the thing does is take an incoming signal and convert it to one that's faster or slower depending on what parameters the speed sensor needs. It should work and in my mind would be worth the risk of trying. A lot easier than fitting in a new transfer case too.

Please post the results to help the next guy who reads this. Good luck.
Tom.

Anonymous said...

Is there any information about brackets or anything else I will need to do the conversion? I have a 94 e350

Unknown said...

Go to http://ujointoffroad.com/ They sell brackets and kits for do it yourself stuff. This blog is more about the guys who are doing the whole thing by themselves.
tom.

Bill S said...

So you stayed with coils up front? Any tips on that?

Unknown said...

No specific reason Bill other than the fact that they were already there. It rode and performed well with the coils. I've also heard that the ujoint and sportsmobile leaf spring conversions work well too.

Bill S said...

Wwll, I was looking for tips about how you set up the front end suspension. But no matter, I'll figure it out. I just read your bio. You still living the lifestyle? I'm hope to do the same thing, sell all the crap and take a Cl. B to Baja in the winter and North in summer. Year and a half to go..

Unknown said...

There wasn't much to it with the coils. Throw the axle under, make room for the axle at the engine cross member and add the control arms from the donor.

I am still living the life. Got a couple investments that allow for full time travel. I own a small place in Baja and a camper and thats it. I now have a girlfriend who has a place in White Salmon, WA so spend a lot of the summer there. I'm currently in Eastern Idaho exploring and riding. Check the new site FirstRoamer.com for the latest camper. Good luck to you Bill, go for it, I doubt you will be disappointed.

Ivan Garmendia said...

Hi Tom...

I am writing from Venezuela

A week ago I started my conversion following your recipe step by step

Mine is an Ambulance E350 98 7,3 actually I am working with the front axle from a Super duty

I wonder if the front coils have any forward inclination or goes straight 90 degrees respect the floor

I appreciate if you can send me more pictures ivangarmendia@hotmail.com

Thanks

Unknown said...

Thanks for the comment Ivan. I sold this van back in 2012. If memory serves me correctly the springs were either vertical or slightly forward at the axle. I think the axle clearing the engine mount cross member will make this decision for you.

Here is a link to where the van is now. Short video of the new owners.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duCcnEMJDAo

A link to Deitmars website, he is currently traveling the east coast of Africa I believe. Really cool to see my old creation being used like this.
http://dieda-unterwegs.net/fahrzeug-vango-und-seine-vorgnger/